Hey! How are ya'? :rockon: I've decided to try this forum... & I have a question -

How many cories could I put in a 20g tank? (I think its a "tall") 20? I really like cories.. They are so cute :wub: & what other fish could I put in without affecting the amount of cories I can put in?

What cories would you reccomend? (I'd like to get sort-of hardyish ones)

Thanks :clap:
~ dud

G'day Dud, good to have you here mate! You could get quite a few cories in there, have you aquascaped the tank as yet? Most of the cory species are pretty hardy, but the stronger ones I've encountered are the bronze & the peppered cory. There is also a very cool one called panda cory, one of my favourites. Altho I have found them to be more sensitive to water temp changes & thermal shock (where temp change is too sudden & the fishes system goes into shock usually resulting in death). But there's many others available now too, so you'd be best scouting out several LFS's, get a feel for what's out there & average prices, then go from there. But you could get away with 6 or 8 in there quite safely, but keep them well fed... Cories are about the best clean up crew I've encountered.

Keep the water's pH levels neutral or if anything slightly on the acidic side, so use drift wood & lots of plants. I'd recommend a basic test kit for checking the waters pH levels if you don't already have them.

Re other fish, there's a whole rang but all will affect total stocking densities. I'd recommend upto 25 of your smaller tropical fish, say a school of 10 neons, 3 small Bala sharks (commonly known as Silver Sharks) & a bristlenose catfish to control algae. Bare in mind you'll have to trade your sharks in eventually when they get too big or they may predate on your neons. I also had a lot of fun with the small varieties of danios, such as the zebra danio. They're very active & really interesting to watch... avoid the giant danio tho as they get quite aggressive IME.

Anyway, it's a start, I hope that helps a bit Dud? Do you have a filter setup yet & if so what type & size is it? It's a vital stewp when you're setting up a new tank to have the right size filter. 95% of the problems new aquarists encounter is due to under-filtration. If you let us know what you have we can help with specific advice etc.

G'day Barra :D
"Have you aquascaped the tank as yet?"
No, I havn't bought anything yet, I'm just planning ;)

"The stronger ones I've encountered are the bronze & the peppered cory."
I've seen those, thier quite nice :D But I dont really like the bronze ones for some reason, but I'll consider the Peppers :)

" There is also a very cool one called panda cory, one of my favourites. Altho I have found them to be more sensitive to water temp changes & thermal shock"
Yes, I know about those, thier sooooo cute :wub: I might try some a little bit later when I'm more experienced ;)

"you'd be best scouting out several LFS's, get a feel for what's out there & average prices, then go from there."
Okay, I think I'll start doing that...

"you could get away with 6 or 8 in there quite safely"
Yes, I know but I want this to be a "mostly-cory" kinda tank lol Would It be OK if I put my male betta in the tank? (he's a shy curious one, would the cories be too active lol)

"Keep the water's pH levels neutral or if anything slightly on the acidic side, so use drift wood & lots of plants. "
I was planning on getting Drift wood :) Easy-to-take-care-of plants would you reccomend? Anubias?

"I'd recommend a basic test kit for checking the waters pH levels if you don't already have them."
Okay, I'll try to remember that ;)

"Re other fish, there's a whole rang but all will affect total stocking densities."
As I said earlier, would my betta be OK? I want to have as many cories as I can lol

"Anyway, it's a start, I hope that helps a bit Dud?"
Oh, yes you've halped me cery much Thanks :D :woo:

"Do you have a filter setup yet & if so what type & size is it?"
No, I don't what kind would you reccomend?

"If you let us know what you have we can help with specific advice etc."
Okay, thanks. *If* I did get only cories, how many could I get?

Thanks alot :nod:

Hey Dud, I've since seen from your other posts that you've got somee xperience. Sorry if my post was a bit beginner-ish, hadn't seen your other inputs yet. I agree re the Bronzes, I'm not a fan, but many are. I also am not too keen of the Albino's. There's quite a few varieties now, there's one similar to the pepered cory called a Stergys cory <spelling?> it has spots & stripes, there's also a gold form, & a black one but I've not seen them. I've also heard of one called a Green Cory or Green Lazer, but haven't seen it here in Oz. One problem I've encountered is if I mix them up too much they don't school & stay away from each other, but get 3 or 4 of the same type & their behaviour is really cool.

Re you questions:

"Would It be OK if I put my male betta in the tank? (he's a shy curious one, would the cories be too active lol)"

Yep, should be fine. The colouration & fin stucture of the Cory's shouldn't cause any problems with the betta seeing them as a threat. But with all territorial fish, keep an eye on him as IME they can turn nasty, & coryies are a mellow fish.

"Okay, thanks. *If* I did get only cories, how many could I get?"

The problem lies in your choice of tank. Cory's being a bottom dwelling schooling fish give you alot of leeway, but your tanks' footprint is still small & is the restricting factor. I personally wouldn't have more than 6 in there... that's 6 Cory's & your Betta. You could fit a few small midwater schooling fish, like a small school of say 5 zebra danios to give the Betta something to follow. The rule of thumb I was taught with Cory's was 1 Cory per 5gallons of water. So IMO 6 is pretty much capacity, again IMO. Even then, you'd have to be disciplined with you water changes as they grow cos Cory's can reach 7cm plus. You don't want them crowding each other ALL the time, just when they want to.

"No, I don't what kind would you reccomend?" <filter>

The basic rule of thumb I use for standard tropicals is a filter that does a minimum of 4x the tanks capacity per hour. That's minimum. With cichlids I use 10x per hour as my guide. The lid setup would be the determining factor as to whether a small canister or Hang-on-back type filter... I'd go with a HOB as it's probably most convenient for a small tank. & it still allows you to mix you filter media for manual<sponge>, biologiocal<sponge & bio-media> & chemical<nitrate remover, carbon etc>. I personally like the Aquaclears. But again shop around, see what's available at reasonable prices in your region.

"Easy-to-take-care-of plants would you reccomend? Anubias?"

Yes definitely, altho it grows very slowly. For good effect tie it to a piece of driftwood with cotton & it'll attach itself. (The cotton will later rot away.) I also recommend Java fern & Amazon Swords (most varieties) as hardy plants. With Java fern, don't bury the rhizome, it's another one for attaching to rocks or driftwood.

Mate, when I put together a tropicals tank I try to address the main groups to make the tank as self-sufficient as possible. Then I just do water changes (25% once a week) & the occasional gravel vac. I see the groups as follows IMO:

Clean up crew: - Corys (general waste & leftovers), Bristlenose Catfish (Algae
control), Clown loaches (general waste & snails)... Clean
Small Schoolers: - Neon Tetra, Red Harlequins, Zebra Danios etc... Activity &
Busyness.
Feature Fish - Bala Shark, Gourami (can be aggressive), Red Tail Shark
(can be aggressive.) etc.

That's the rough layout I use when planning a tank. There's more subgroups but you get the drift. If you overload on one group with Tropicals in a tank that's not big enough you start running into problems. Even tropicals get territorial & stressed if there's not enough room for them.

HTH mate.

"Sorry if my post was a bit beginner-ish"
Oh, no. Thats okay, the more beginnerish the better ;P

"there's one similar to the pepered cory called a Stergys cory <spelling?>"
Sterbai cory? I was considering getting one of the spotted variety (eg: Julli, False julli, agassiz Cory etc) (sp?)

"Green Cory or Green Lazer"
I've seen pics of those, don't really like them lol

"keep an eye on him as IME they can turn nasty, & coryies are a mellow fish." <re: betta:>
Okay, thanks :)

"The rule of thumb I was taught with Cory's was 1 Cory per 5gallons of water." <re: how many>

Well I thought id would be closer to about 3 lol.. I was wrong :bye:

"So IMO 6 is pretty much capacity, again IMO. Even then, you'd have to be disciplined with you water changes as they grow cos Cory's can reach 7cm plus. You don't want them crowding each other ALL the time, just when they want to. "
Hmm, so would 6 of one type & 6 of another be okay? :(


"No, I don't what kind would you reccomend?" <filter>

"The basic rule of thumb I use for standard tropicals is a filter that does a minimum of 4x the tanks capacity per hour. "
Okay, so a HOB.. Does just looking on the box & seeing "Handles 20-30 gallon tanks" good enough? lol

"Easy-to-take-care-of plants would you reccomend? Anubias?"

"Yes definitely, altho it grows very slowly. For good effect tie it to a piece of driftwood with cotton & it'll attach itself. (The cotton will later rot away.) I also recommend Java fern & Amazon Swords (most varieties) as hardy plants. With Java fern, don't bury the rhizome, it's another one for attaching to rocks or driftwood."
Okay, thanks. Anubias on D-wood, Java fern, Amazin sword. (I've heard swords are hard to up-root & they can grow huge!

"Clean up crew: - Corys (general waste & leftovers),
Bristlenose Catfish (Algae control),
Clown loaches (general waste & snails)... Clean
Small Schoolers: - Neon Tetra, Red Harlequins, Zebra Danios etc... Activity &
Busyness.
Feature Fish - Bala Shark, Gourami (can be aggressive), Red Tail Shark
(can be aggressive.) etc."
<><><><><>
12 cories (if I can)
3 ottos (maybe)
3 yoyo loaces (maybe)
6 silvertip, rummynose or diamond tetra
1 betta (depending on agression)
2 bolivian rams
<><><><><>
I dont think that'll work, there are too many bottom-dwellers. (I think)
<><><><><>
bottom - 12 cories (If I can)
lower middle - 2 bolivian rams
middle - 6 tetras
middle top - 1 betta (depending on aggresion)
~Possibly~ 3 ottos (if needed)
<><><><><>
Do you think that'll work?

"Even tropicals get territorial & stressed if there's not enough room for them."
Thats why I didn't ask what kind of goldfish I should get ;)

Thanks alot :clap: :clap: :rockon:

Option 1 - make it 6 Cory's, no Rams & it'd work ok.

Option 2 - make it 6 Cory's & you should be ok.

Rams will need a spot of ground that's theirs, they're territorial & whilst will move into the midwater they are definitely amongst the ground dwellers primarily. I found loaches are too bold in that they don't seem to care who's territory is who's & will stress the Rams out, especially if they breed.

Re the filter, IMO buy one that says it'll service a 55 or even better 75g tank. That's how I do it & it keeps the tank very stable. Haven't ever had a crash in any of my tanks since employing that method (that'd be almost 15 years now).

Swords can get big but the fish don't mind the cover... & if it gets too big pull it out & put it in your 75g tank.

"Option 2 - make it 6 Cory's & you should be ok."
Okay, I think I'll try this one :)

"Re the filter, IMO buy one that says it'll service a 55 or even better 75g tank."
Okay.. Damn thats gonna cost alot! lol

re sword: i"f it gets too big pull it out & put it in your 75g tank. "
So, they are easily "pullable"? (like if I dont want it I can just pull it out easily?).. & If I *did* pull it out where would I put it? The only tank I have is a 5g :dance: lol I don't think I can put it there ;P

Would t be too much of a strech to put 3 platies (or 3 guppies..) in there if I have another tank for the fry?

Thanks :woo:

Re the filter - the main thing isto get the biggest you can afford, it saves you so many hassles when it's overfiltered, things are so much more stable & you skip so many problems that can happen.

Re the sword - ... you missed my hint... put it in the 75g, you may not have one yet... but once this addiction takes hold you will! :evil:

Re the guppies - IME betta's can confuse male guppies for rivals & rip their guts out. This is MY experience, it's what mine did... 5 dead guppies later no more males left tot service my protein factories. But if you don't mind potential carnage, no worries. The Rams should clean up any fry the parents miss, they're pretty efficient at that.

Oh & one more thing. Because you're stocking the tank close to capacity, add the fish gradually. Start with the cheapest fish, say the 3 guppies. Wait 3 weeks then add your 6 tetras. Wait a week then the cory's & another week then the Rams & the Betta last so he doesn't have the "right" to get territorial to new additions. Leave the Otto's till last so there's a nice build up of food for them.

Good luck with it amigo, let us know how it goes, & remember... :pics:

"Re the filter - the main thing isto get the biggest you can afford"
Okay, I'll have too see ;)

"Re the sword - ... you missed my hint... put it in the 75g, you may not have one yet... but once this addiction takes hold you will! "
.. in my dreams *sigh* :P

"IME betta's can confuse male guppies for rivals & rip their guts out. "
Doh! Of course! How could I forget?? lol

"add the fish gradually. Start with the cheapest fish"
Oh!? I thought it was best to start stocking with the hardiest fish? hmm

"Leave the Otto's till last so there's a nice build up of food for them."
Okay, I'll try to do that :)

"Good luck with it amigo"
Thanks alot :D

Thanks :nod:

That's upto yourself. But the first fish in are the ones starting the tanks cycle, I don't risk quality fish, however hardy they may be, cos if it's gonna die it'll be in that nitrogen cycle period. I actually use feeders then remove them as I start stocking.... well depending on what I'm stocking, sometimes they stay, albeit briefly.

S.A. Biotope. :rockon:

Plants for brighter look,
Echinodorus bleheri
Echinodorus angustifolius
Ceratophyllum demersum
Bacopa australis
Sagittaria subulata
Riccia fluitans (?)
Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Echinodorus quadricostatus var. ''magdalenensis'' (Echinodorus bolivianus var. Magdalenensis.)

For a darker look,
Bacopa monnieri
Ceratopteris cornuta
Echinodorus 'Ozelot'
Echinodorus 'Ozelot' (Green)
Echinodorus 'Rosé'
Echinodorus 'Rubin'
Echinodorus cordifolius ''ovalis''
Echinodorus macrophyllus
Echinodorus martii (maior)
Echinodorus osiris
Echinodorus uruguayensis
Eleocharis ''parvula''

Lé Fish. (hehe I used french :D :whistle: :D)
2 Bolivian rams
6 silvertip tetras
3 Ottos
6 cories
6 Marbled Hatchetfish

Would that work?

EDIT: A friend told me my plant list is Crapola, ignore it ;)
Or should I not do a biotope?

He also said that,
java fern windolve
Tiger lotus
anubias nana petite
crypt wedtii
dwarf amazon sword
& chain sword
Would be good lowish maint plants for a med light 20g :) (not sure if its going to be med though ;))

Haven't kept hatchetfish so can't comment from experince sorry.

Re biotype, I like biotypes. I always design my tank around the fish going in there & what the native environment in the wild is like. I get as much info re the natural environment then go from there. I have actually gotten completely out of tropicals (except Australian natives) & now specialise in Tang's which I also breed... helps pay for the addiction. All my tanks are species specific now but I work hard to mimic their biotype & am usually rewarded with spawning within weeks.

Re the plants, I'm no expert, I stick with basics as I see plants more as mineral suppliments (joys of cichlids) & because of my current Tang addiction there's very few plants found in the lake anyway so it's to taste more so than necessity. I use anubias & java fern for it's hardiness & the fish don't eat it so much, & for ease of propogation. The swords I grow my own so they're dead easy if I can do it. You'd be better served posting in the planted section for detailed plant lists & care/maintenance of them.

so yeah, can't give too much feedback on these last questions other than to refer you to the right part of the forum where those more experienced in those fields can & will help. :nod:

Okay, thank you very much :)