Im looking for a SW Ray, that can be kept in a 100g tank. It would definitely have to stay small.

If not, do you know of any FW Rays that would fit a tank this size?

--Dan

The Blue Spotted Ray is the only one that I know of that is commonly available to some degree in the saltwater trade. Even at the LFS where I often times help out (Off the Time Clock of course as they are new and on a tight budget) our distributers only offer this type if there is one on the Availability List at all. It requires a minimum tank size recommendation of 300 gallons hence why few of them are on the market. If you can get a small one then a 100 gallon will do for a while. But be advised these are pretty difficult fish and are best left to Advanced reefers that can afford the tank and the loss before finding one that will survive. We have had one at the store on a couple of occasions and one died due to failure to eat, even when live food was offered and a customer with a 500 gallon tank bought the other one. I do not know of the status of this one, if its still alive or not. These animals were fairly sedintary too as well from my observations although they were in a well set up 240 gallon tank.

If your set on a Ray, then I think a FW one would be your best bet. I dont know much about these type critters though (FW).

Here are some suggestions though for a SW tank of that size. You might consider one of the Larger Puffers such as Dog Face or Black Spot Puffer, Clown Trigger, Picasso Trigger, Zebra Moray Eel, Volitan Lion Fish or possibly even a Miniatus Grouper. All of these are fairly easy to get, fairly robust, and are just plain cool looking too. With a good filtration sytem and about 45 lbs or so Live Rock would be quiet doable options. Of these I think the Puffer has the most character, I have seen some at the LFS that were a real peice of work personality wise. Just some food for thought....

BTW...that 100 gallon would make an increadible reef tank or FOWLR. I have one in storage that will be comoing out and getting set back up this summer. And for the record, on a reef tank...2 x 175 watt halides will easily light it dispite the general Rule of Thumb of 1 halide for every 2 feet of tank length or width...

My problem, is my tank is custom, and it's a triangle that fits into the corner of the wall. It's quite tall, maybe I'll get a few measurements in the morning.

Amazing help though, thanks a lot. The time put into that post is appreciated. I wont be doing the 100g SW for quite a bit I believe, probably not until Mid-August at the earliest. I think I will go with 60lbs of reefbone, and another 50lbs of LR. I doubt I will go reef for a while, lights are a big, but important investment.

As for the tank suggestions, I really like the idea of a puffer, although I am not at all familiar with the types, besides Dogface. I really like the Yellow Puffer, not sure of it's actual common or scientific name, but it's an awesome fish.

--Dan

The Yellow Puffer is an excellent choice too and very vivid looking! If your into oddities I think you will really like them. These are for Agressive Tanks only though and dont do well with smaller or docile fish such as Clown Fish, Banner Fish or Butterflys. They can be a bit of a fin nipper and they do have teeth!

I would probably give the thing it's own tank! Or what types of tankmates would you suggest? I've only kept FW puffers, and they needed a species tank.

--Dan

I really think i have the best salt water mod there is lol

Hey look! A visitor!

Welcome to the SW section! Haha! Where me and Rits have peaceful discussions about our reefs, all alone.

I agree, Rits is a great help! Hopefully, once I get a little more experience/knowledge under my belt, I could co-mod with Ritsuko! *nudges Vip* :lol:.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='laugh.gif' /> That wouldnt be for ages though.


Anyways, like I asked above, what goes well with Yellow Puffers?

--Dan

They will do pretty well with other fish such as the smaller triggers, smaller Eels (under 4ft) such as the Snow Flake, Jewel Moray and such, Square Spot Anthias (males have the Square Spot and are brillant Red and Pink the feamales are kinda redish orange to one degree or another. Onle 1 male per a tank! Females in a 100 gallon tank a small haram of 3-5 would be fine) and add some bright colors to your tank. Groupers are good too but very few will stay small enough for that size tank. Many sold in the hobby get to be 24 plus inches! But there are a couple of smaller ones in the 10-14 inch range. We can bounce this thread back and forth till you have settled on a workable game plan, so keep thinking about it and the ideas coming, and I will keep trying to keep you out of dire straights with a bad choice.

Vip...dont make my head swell, LOL!

Hehe, Im like your student!

Some ideas I had include a Picaso Trigger, a Clown Trigger, a Clown Surgeon, a Snowflake Eel, maybe a trio of Yellow Tangs...I really like Flame Angels aswell, and some of the Emperor and Queen Angels.

Obviously I dont mean I will keep all of those, they are just some of my favourites.

I am really interested in Lionfish aswell, and they are quite common around here. Is 100g a big enough?

This is all hypothetical of course. This tank wont be up for months. Planning is always fun tho, and it gives me a chance to reserach a bit more!

--Dan

Without a bigger tank...I would scrtch those Angels from the List. The get big and they are usually a bit tough to adapt to aquarium life making them a tough nut to crack for even expereinced Reefers. The Flame would be acceptable possibly if added first and allowed to reach maximum size. If a Trigger is kept I would pass this selection by.

Tangs are best kept one per a species unless the tank is really big as they usually arent known to play well with others. Two of the Smaller types of Tangs in a 100-125 would be workable though. A Yellow Tang and a Kole's Tang for example should be okay although they both may bicker a bit with each other.

With the Clown Trigger you would be limited to just a coupe or three fish Max! Threy get to about 19 inches. The Picasso and Udulated Tiggers could do pretty well though as they are only about 9 and 12 inches max each. I dont suggest that more than one trigger be added to a tank as this can be a bit risky.

Volitans get to about 15 inches but will do great in a 100 and could even have a couple. But I would suggest a couple of the smaller Russlles or Antennata Lion fish instead which look so simular it would take a good eye to differentiate from each other. These are usaully fairly hardy with thier only Hang Up being getting them off live food and on to Frozen Foods. In fact I would highly recommend that you ensure that it is eating such food before leaving the LFS in your bag. One shouldnt feed these guys feeder Goldfish as most fresh water fish lack the neccessary nutrients and the carpice (?) that makes the head will rarely digest completely and cause blockage of the intestinal track starving your poor lion. I have found that Ghost Shrimp and Mollies converted to saltwater full strength to be a cheap temporary live food for picky eaters if fed sparingly, ie...enough to keep them from starving until you can coax them into frozen food. Do realize that these fish can deliver an extremely devestating sting if mishandled. Its doubtful that it will kill you but you will probably be pretty convienced your going to die, lol. When my Drwaf Fuzzy got me, I swear my eyes must have rolled in the back of my head, and I am sure my knees were about to buckle. Man did I get "lit up"! Needless to say it had my undivided attention from there on out!!!

I really like some of the smaller, Dwarf Lions. I guess if I wanted to keep on, I could set up a 30g and keep it as a single species. The Radiata's and the Atennata's are beautiful fish. Do Puffers, Trigs, and Lions go well together?

I also really like the Humu Trigger, and the Bursa Tigger. Im also intrigued by the Mimic Saddle Puffer. Kind of a neat fish!

Anyways, what are your thoughts. Any fish come to mind that I should consider checking out?

--Dan

I have had good experiences with Puffers and Lions in my tanks and have seen sucess in many other tanks. As far as the trigger issue, in keeping Lion Fish with them, this is dependent upon the said Trigger Fishes personality. Ive see it done with good results but due to the Lion Fishes flowing finage, slow swiming and generally docile behavior and the Triggers propensity to nip at fins of other fish, this kinda becomes a bit of a coin toss. Know too that Trigger Fish can often display a "Dr Jeckle & Mr Hyde" personality, going for years in a community tank as a model citizen and then with no warning, be the Terror of the Tank, in a matter of seconds.

The Dwarf Fuzzy is an excellent species to keep. Its exceptional display of bright finage looks great. They rarely exceed 5-6 inmches and can get by comfortable in a small tank. The two biggest things to keep in mind with Lion Fish is...

1. Convert them to frozen foods as soon as possible and this can be a bit of a task. With persistance it can be done. If you for some reason cant accomplish this be ready to feed a couple of Damsels a week unless you can find a more cost effective and safe Live Feeder fish or Shrimp.

2. These fish can be kept in a comunity tank, But dont under estimate the size of that Gaping Mouth! Its amazing just how huge a prey item it can fit in the cavernous mouth on that tiny little three inch fish!

Additionally its well documented and observed in the wild where several of these have been seen hunting in packs. I have observed this only once in Diego Garcia in the Chagos Archipelago, when I watched several lion Fish herd a small school of Mullets into the shore line and then took turns picking them off as they tried to escape. It was pretty cool to watch, unfortunately I wasnt into SW tanks then and didnt realize how increadible it was to see this in action. With that in mind prehaps for your 100 gallon tank a couple of these (Dwarf, Russels or Antennatas of your choice) and a puffer might prehaps make for a unique and stiking display, and provide hours of veiwing pleasure. Both these types of fish with adequate filtration could be done in conjuction with some of the more hardy corals. This would be a really cool set up..

I dont currently have a tank like this becuase I am not that interested in fish as I am corals and clams. But I do have a tank with a few Groupers, a Lunar Wrasse and Zebra Eel for my so called "Aggresive Set Up", and have kept several of the species you previously mentioned in the past

Hopefully this gives you a little more to run with.

Post some pics!

That would have been really interesting to watch! I remember seeing how whales hunt and packs...I was just amazed. We underestimate our under the sea friends!

I also like the Lion+Puffer idea, I just find Lions to be completely mystifying, and I dont even know why! Just something about them interests me big time. I guess if I wanted a ton of colour, these wouldnt be the best chance. And I know puffers can also be little Jeckles/Hydes. I had a couple in a tank that were great friends. Then one day, I found one of them half eaten!

Anyways, like I said, get some pics up! I also love corals, but just dont have the money to invest in seriously diving into them. FOWLR is good enough for now!

--Dan

Sometimes lack of funds can be a blessing in disguise...

It slows you down a bit and helps you spend more time thinking, planning and researching while you wait for that fun dollar meter to get back up to more acceptable levels...

Truer word were never spoken ;) .

--Dan

Trust me when I say I have seen that movie a few times...sad but true.

But hey, its saved me a few times too.

Kill Bill?

Anyways, I was thinkin about a different type of Puffer, since Yellow's I hear can be quite expensive.

--Dan

They are pretty pricey from what I hear. The only one I have seen was brought into UTS and traded in for store credit. It was immeadately sold for about 125.00 Thats roughly 1/2 of what typical on-line retailers charge when available.

What about a Black Spotted Puffer which is sometimes refered to as a Dog Face Puffer? It can come in a Gray Phase or Yellow Phase. Its not nearly as bright or has as much yellow as the Golden Puffer but you can usaully see some yellow in it.

Im thinkin maybe a Lion species tank would be cool. What do you think? If not, maybe a Trig, a Puffer and maybe some Flame Angels? Or will they be bite size for the others?

Im confused now!

--Dan