What meds can I use for my betta, I think its getting worse now...I just to trim it now with nici but he got to stressed and jumped around so i stopped whitch i think was a good idea..any help? if not, your all banned! :boxer:

Vip, i feel for you. I have been battling fin rot for forever, mainly because I'm a softie and keep buyingfish that have it :banghead: I would start with doing as many water changes as you can muster, adding some salt, and if if get worse, maracyn 2. Don't cut the fins unless it threatens turning into dangerous body rot.

Get yourself some ketapang leaf extract and he will be fine.

In worst case scenario if you can't find any it's best to actually place some Betadine solution directly on the area and not "cut" anything away.

I've never heard of the betadine solution before. Could you elaborate? Sounds interesting.

Betadine Microbicides are the leading antiseptics in U.S. hospitals today. Only povidone-iodine, as in Betadine Microbicides, is capable of killing all classes of pathogens responsible for nosocomial infections: gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, including antibiotic-resistant strains and spores (both bacterial and fungal), as well as viruses, mycobacteria and protozoa. Today, gram-negative strains comprise over one-third of bacteria isolated from hospital-acquired infections, and some commonly used antiseptics are ineffective against these organisms.

Betadine Microbicides contain a complex of the polymer polyvinylpyrrolidone with iodine (PVP-I) which, after application, continues to deliver iodine over a period of time. Elemental iodine (I2) has long been known as a highly effective microbicidal agent that rapidly kills bacteria, viruses, fungi and protozoa.

Betadine Solution is film-forming and leaves a protective antiseptic film over wounds and skin which decreases microbial counts and subsequently provides excellent antimicrobial substantivity for several hours.


Just net the fish and with a q-tip carefully swab the area with betadine.. taking care to avoid gills and eyes... and allow to swim in a separate bowl for a few hours.

We are currently testing a product from Hikari specifically for bettas that will actually will be of the same technology, however, they also have a product they
already market called Bio-Bandage® which will work as well.


You can read more here:
Bio-Bandage®

Vip - refresh me.. what size tank is he in?
and how often do you do water changes?

5g and I do water changes once a month or sooner when depends if it gets dirty. I dunno if that med is in australia

Well Betadine is available world wide as it's used in every hospital. If you do a search for it you will find many instances of it's availability in AU.

As for Bio Bandage, once again a search of Hikari's website reveals that there are 2 distributors who supply AU whom I am sure would gladly advise you on it's availability !

AQACENTA PTY. LTD.,
53 GAREMA CIRCUIT, KINGSGROVE, N.S.W. 2208, AUSTRALIA
(02 ) 9758 2222

PETWARE DISTRIBUTORS LTD.
PO BOX 67 098 MT EDEN AUCKLAND 1030 NEW ZEALAND
Michael Gervai, 80 Mountain Road, Panmure, Auckland
tel. : 0064 (0)9 570-5711 fax. : 0064 (0)9 570-8522
e-mail : michael@petware.co.nz

Bluebetta - that's great info about the betadine. We keep tons of it here at work for first aid, even the little individual use swabs. Already asked the boss if I could take a few swabs home just in case I ever need them. Thanks!!!

Vip - I'd up the water changes to about 25% changes once a week if you can.
Also toss in a pinch of aquarium salt if you can. That should start him on the road to improvement pretty fast.

Do you vacuum it regularly? Probably once every 2 - 3 weeks would be good.

Hey, good info, BluebettaUSA!

I think it's great you bring your level of experience to the board. Some people just join to sell their stuff, but you're actually taking the time to make sure people are informed! Thanks!!! ...I think it's great!

:thanks:

The Use of salt (sodium chloride, NaCl) in the freshwater aquarium or pond.



What is salt?

In the broadest sense a “salt” is the chemical compound formed when an acid reacts with a base. There are many “salts” in our everyday lives: baking soda, or sodium bicarbonate, NaHCO3, and washing soda, soda ash or sodium carbonate, NaCO3, are two examples. The more familiar table salt or sodium chloride, NaCl, is a salt that is formed when hydrochloric acid (a.k.a. muriatic acid) reacts with sodium hydroxide (a.k.a. lye). Common salt exists in several forms and most of these are found in the modern home. There is the stuff found in the salt shaker in the dining table, there is the rock salt we use to melt ice and snow, and there is the water softener salt we use to recharge our home water softener zeolites.

Are all forms of common salt essentially the same?

The short answer is “yes”. For all practical purposes these different forms of household salt are the same. The basic differences are found in the purity and the additives. Rock salt, basically, is just the material as it comes from the salt mines or evaporation ponds. It contains greater or lesser amounts of impurities and is not suitable for human ingestion. Water softener salt is a purified form that is usually pressed into pellets. Except for its physical form it would be suitable for use in cooking; it is also a bit pricey to be using as an ice-melt. Table salt comes in two basic formulas; iodized and non-iodized. The latter is used where natural iodine content in the drinking water and other food sources may not be sufficient to prevent human goiter (a disease condition of the thyroid gland). Table salts also contain one or more additives that prevent them from caking, and therefore, free flowing, in a humid atmosphere. “When it rains it pours.”

Are the additives in table salt harmful in aquariums or ponds?

The short answer is “no”. Neither the small percentage of iodides nor the anti-caking additives can be considered to be dangerous when the salt is used in ponds or aquariums. There is no valid reason to use only non-iodized salt yet this is always a hot topic for discussion and argument among aquarium hobbyists. In reality, the minuscule amount of iodide that would end up in a treated pond or aquarium is likely to be beneficial (as a potential source of essential iodine for both certain plants and animals) and certainly not harmful. Fishes can suffer from goiter (= iodine deficiency) also.

How useful is salt used in aquariums and ponds?

From the number of aquarium hobbyists and pondkeepers who use salt one would have to assume that it is one of the best, if not the best, treatment to use for all kinds of known and unknown diseases. The reality is quite different.

It is quite possible that the unwarranted reliance upon salt treatments has resulted in more fish losses than the diseases themselves. This is because there is a common misunderstanding among aquarists and pondkeepers that salt is a good disinfectant, antibacterial, antifungal and/or antiprotozoal drug. At the concentrations commonly used in aquariums and ponds it is none of these things. As a reliable disease treatment and/or preventative salt is essentially useless.

For what is salt useful?

Primarily, salt can be used for two different, but related problems. The first is the treatment of nitrite, NO2-, poisoning, and the second is the treatment of osmoregulatory stress. In both cases it is the property of sodium and chloride ions to be transported across the gill membranes, from the water, and into the blood of the fishes. Osmoregulatory stress can result when fishes are transported or when they are removed from water of one osmotic pressure and placed into one which is significantly different. In general aquarium and pond practice, where one is working only with freshwater fishes, the problems associated with osmoregulatory stress are essentially nil and therefore of little concern.

For nitrite poisoning salt can impart protection to the fishes. This happens only if the salt content is such that the chloride ion’s concentration is about 30 times that of the nitrite ion concentration in the water. Typically, nitrite becomes toxic at about 0.1 mg/L. This means that the chloride ion concentration would have to be at least 3.0 mg/L. This concentration translates into one of about 5.0 mg/L of salt (NaCl is 60.66% chloride, Cl-); this is equivalent to 18.7 mg/gallon. A teaspoon of table salt is about 5.5 grams (or 5,500 mg); a teaspoon of table salt would be sufficient to protect fishes living in approximately 294 gallons of water ! A standard treatment of SeaChem Prime will typically provide enough protection.

For simple osmoregulatory stress protection, on an indefinite basis, one can use 1 to 3 mg/L of salt. This would be equivalent to one teaspoon of salt added to 1,453 to 484 gallons of water!

What about disease treatment with salt?

In his book, Fish Medicine (W.B. Saunders Company, 1992), Michael Stoskopf lists salt at a concentration of 22 mg/L (= 83.27 mg/gallon), as a dip, for 30 minutes to control fungal infections and protozoal infestations (specifically Epistylis sp.). This treatment level is equivalent to 1 teaspoon per 66 gallons of water! Stoskopf, lists no other treatment uses, and to use salt in place of reliable and safe treatments like Rid-Ich+ for treating diseases, like ich, is simply not justified.

To use salt at higher levels (e.g. 1 teaspoon per gallon) than those indicated by the literature is also not justified. Higher levels, especially on freshwater fishes such as characins (tetras), cyprinids (goldfish and koi) and catfishes, will act as an irritant and thereby stress the fishes. Fishes such as livebearers and cichlids can, likely, tolerate much higher levels of salt (some species of livebearers and cichlids actually enter seawater).

Before using salt in an aquarium or pond:

1) Consider the fact that salt is a very poor substitute for more specific drugs, medications or preventatives.
2) Salt can be highly irritating to freshwater fishes, especially cyprinids (goldfish & koi), catfishes, and characins (tetras).
3) If salt is indicated (such as for nitrite poisoning) one can use either iodized or non-iodized with equal safety.
4) If salt is used to ease osmotic stress, use it only once, and then get rid of it by doing regular, partial water changes on the pond or aquarium.
5) Do not use salt in place of proper water conditioners and shipping aids such as AmQuel, NovAqua, PolyAqua, Prime or Ship Right.
6) Salt is not a disinfectant. For proper disinfection of nets and pond and aquarium equipment use SanAqua or Net-Dip.

The Use of salt (sodium chloride, NaCl) in the freshwater aquarium or pond

Thanks for the kind words ! Doesn't really do me any good to "sell stuff" here and then have issues with it later because the information wasn't available. I would rather help educate those wanting to learn then deal with the problems that may or may not arise.

If you educate them, they will come, not to mention the fish sell themselves ! :lol:

Well...
I think i was just BURNED on the suggestion of adding salt. :lol:
Rightfully so, I suppose - as EVERYONE ALWAYS suggests it for EVERYTHING, and I do NOT agree with that. (I do not do that... lol!)

I should just say here that doc wellfish's salt has always worked wonders for me in bad cases of finrot. It helps kickstart the slimecoat and promotes healing and growth of fins. That's why I suggested it here.

I do agree on the subject of NOT using salt as a treatment for any disease. SO MANY times I see people suggest to "just toss a pinch of salt" into a tank when a fish is ailing and they have no further suggestions to offer for treatment. It's not a cure - in this case, only a stimulant for beginning regrowth.

and FYI - i never use salt in a tank unless there are severe cases of problems with finrot, parasites or some other severe ailment.

LOL ! I wasn't posting that to "burn" you at all ! I just wanted people to have some facts on salt as I always see these posting to "just add a pinch of salt" like it's a miracle cure and it drives me nuts ! I apologize if it came across wrong.

Nope - I knew exactly what you meant, and the way that I came across was what you and I were both complaining about. :drunk: lol

I TOTALLY agree with that being over-recommended.
Great article on salt use too, by the way.

In fact, would you mind if I pin it?? :)

Good idea, BettaMomma!

I didn't take the salt article as being a burn toward you either - and I agree with the use of salt. I DO use it at times - like when I have something going through the fish and I'm not sure what it is - but I'm not really a 'fish salter.' More often than not, it's just a quick solution when you really don't know what you're dealing with.

No matter what you do to treat a disease or condition, if your water paramaters aren't good, you won't cure it. A well-known goldfish breeder, Al Foster, once told me 'take care of the water, and the water will take care of the fish.' I think it's true.

Vip - I change at least 50% of the water in my 10 gallon betta tanks every week. I vacuum the gunk at the bottom of the tank when I change the water - more often if there's something particularly nasty down there, or if there's food left over. I would concentrate on cleaning up the water before I would cut fins or throw antibiotics at the fish.

JMHO...

:lol: Ok ! Just wanted to be sure. Yes, go ahead and pin it as I think it would be quite helpful!

Great, thank you!
I will pin it in a bit.

BettaMomma & Justhal..... you are exactly right.... it all comes down to the water conditions.

VIP...Trimming is just doing more damage than good... by cutting you have just created an open wound on an already stressed fish. Test your water. The best thing you can ever do for you fish is water changes. For fin rot... lots of water changes.

Salt... well... I think that is to a degree personal preference. Naturally there is salt even in freshwater... just the levels depend on location. Before you consider ever salting your tank.... do you have a water softener? Do you know what is in it? Not all water softener salt is the same. I do not have a water softener... so I kinda let that info go in 1 ear and out the other... all I remember is that the exchange ratio is 1:1.

Almond leaf does help.... but really the biggest thing is to make sure the water is the best possible. For mild cases... they don't even need anything else to heal up.

How much of his fins are blown?