SO... in getting ready to get my new justhal fishes into their new homes, I just boiled a pot of IAL. I let it cool down to room temp, and when I tested the ph of it, it's skyrocketed. Even above my normal tap water.
What the hell?

I tested the water these fish came to me in and the ph is at 7.0 and everything else (hardness, etc.) is all the way at the other end of the spectrum from my water.

*sigh*
I think I might just be stuck very slowly acclimating these fish to my water - as much as I don't want to do that.

I've tried SO many things and nothing I have tried has worked.
What to do?

Hrm why dont you try taking the boiled IAL and dumping it in a bigger Continer with tap water the ph should get lower......??

Well I was trying to lower the ph by using the IAL.
It's having the opposite effect - so if I want to lower the ph, I'll just use my plain old tap water.
This is driving me totally nuts.
These poor fish are sitting in styrofoam cups w/lids on them right now on my kitchen table.


:banghead:

Okay - so nevermind on the IAL issue here.
I acclimated everyone to my water, included IAL leaves and some prepared water w/colloidal for everyone.

So far so good. I will be keeping a very close eye on their fins to make sure there are no issues.

Excellent! Your acclimation process is so slow, everyone should be fine. :) You rock!

I had the same problem with this one! Here's what Bryan from bluebettaUSA told me:

The boiling concentrates everything in the water! So, as you boil the leaves, you also are concentrating the minerals, etc. that make your water's KH high. As you're trying to use the leaves to lower your pH, you end up RAISING your pH by adding the concentrated tap water you boiled!

IF you wanted to use boiled IAL as a solution to help bring down the pH, you'd need to use some distilled water to boil the leaves in... since most of the mineral content is just about gone, you won't be adding concentrated minerals from your tap water.

Or you could treat your water ahead of time in a bucket with a bubbler and peat in media bags.

Yeah, I also thought of that - maybe find a way to just age the water with either IAL or peat, like you said.

OR you could use the IAL extract. BlueBettaUSA carries it. I don't know how much it lowers pH, though.

In a situation with limited space it could be tough to try to store water for a week or more.

So - I could use boiled distilled water w/IAL leaves with no ill effects - like them not having the minerals and whatever else that tap water has?

Or do I just boil them in a smaller amount of water and then add it to my water?

No - if you want to make a batch of boiled IAL, you need to use distilled water. Most of the minerals are removed from it in the process of distilling - so it won't concentrate the minerals in the final IAL tea that you get.

The other option is to age the IAL with your regular water and see how it looks. I don't know how much it will lower your pH though.

I actually like the idea of the Pur filter though. You would probably have to mix some of your tap water in to bring the pH up to neutral, though.

If you're not going to breed them, and they don't seem to be suffering any ill effects from the high pH, maybe you shouldn't worry about it. I don't know... but a lot of people warn against messing around with the pH. I prefer for the fish to be in 7.0 or less, but if you're keeping them just to have them and enjoy them, and you really don't want to breed, maybe just take it a day at a time and see how they do.

It's up to you...

Oh, If you boil the ial and it goes up ph? I have to test mine and see now. SHIT! :?:

It concentrates the minerals in your tap water to boil it...

YES! It skyrockets the ph.
Like to the point where the drops wouldnt' even read it, and when I did the dip the stick test, the second it hit the water it turned the hottest pink I've ever seen one of those pads turn. And usually it gradually turns it and has never gotten that pink.

I think it would be safe to guess that the ph in there was up in the 9 region. Really.

A pur water filter is nothing in face of three stage osmosis which in the long run is cheaper. If one is a little handy a small setup can be done for around $200 us maybe less. Pur water filters are great for chlorine and heavy metals, but hardness wastes them fast.

I would go the peat route over pur even. As peat can be bought in serious bulk at a hardware store like homedepot.

I know in my own testing the RO water here comes out at nearly nil accross the board with a pH of about 6.8. The tap water is pH 8.4 GH 75ppm KH 300ppm.
The last pur test I did pH 8.4 GH < 25ppm KH < 100ppm. You may have more luck with yours.

Remember that your enemy is KH once that is gone then you can manipulate at free will. If you just mix in the distilled water you won't have much effect with lowering KH.

RO water would be the best route because it is less pure than distilled and fish will live in it, distilled I believe would be very bad for your fish as it would leech minerals from them..


Quick math on the crazy pH when boiling:
Boil a liter of water with a pH of 7 until it is reduced 10%
Warning psuedo math here.

1000mL x pH 7.0 = 900mL x pH Z

pH Z = (7000mL pH)/900mL

pH Z = 7.78

Quite likely off a bit because it's not a real calculation but it tells the story.



PS Its rough but read the chemistry thread might help some or might not.

Well - I have a small problem.
I currently have 23 tanks, and on some of them get water changes every other day. And I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with 2 humans, 2 guinea piggies and 26 fish. lol

SOOO unfortunately, I don't have room to make water with buckets for everyone and nowhere to store any peat.

BUT, with the RO system - is that something you can hook onto your water faucet? Or is it done otherwise?

Most RO systems are setup to go under the sink with a small holding tank and a sepperate mini tap. I'll get you pictures of my mothers and post em in the DIY area for you, with a decent description.

The system I figured for the cost I stated does about 80 gallons every 24 hours teh main issue would be the holding tank, my mother's is about 3 gallons, you might want a bigger one. I'll PM you when I get to that thread BTW.

Where do u get distilled water O_o

If your using Peat for bettas and expect to get the same benefits as IAL then your not going to get it. Peat will do nothing more then change your pH. I sell a ton of peat pellets to cichlid & angel breeders. Now that I've got the Ketapang Leaf Extract product working superbly I am phasing out my peat pellets and just going to carry the extract as it's benefits are far too great to dismiss.

Any supermarket !

So - BBU... what would you suggest I do?
My ph is in the 8.4 or higher range, it's off the charts in hardness - basically everything is very high.

All the bettas I have had seem to have done very well in the water I have.
I just got some hms from justhal and I"m worried that their fins are going to suffer in water that's that harsh.

Should I make adjustments to the water?
I don't have any plans to breed so it is just for normal fishkeeping.
(If you can refer to us as "normal" :lol: )

If your fish aren't stressing then just leave it alone. More problems occur when you try and adjust pH then just letting the fish adapt to it. If anything use distilled water to boil your leaves as justhal said and you'll be fine.

Okay, thank you :)

Blue betta I wasn't suggesting the peat as a replacement for Ial, not sure where you got that idea, I was suggesting it for lowering the pH.

<Did you fully read the post?>